Wednesday, October 16, 2013

And Ammon began to speak unto him with boldness, and said unto him: Believest thou that there is a God?

Zion and Jerusalem, October 16, 2013

Believest thou that there is a God?

(Book of Mormon | Alma 30:37)

Because I Miguel Angel, do believe in GOD, and in his son Jesus Christ that came and who shall come again in power majesty, glory, power dominion to destroy the man of sin by the  brightness of his coming.  You said that you are an ex Mormon that was with us for some twenty years and that for reasons beyond my knowledge you departed the faith. And now you are persecuting us  by spreading lies and calumnies about us and the origin of the Church of Jesus Christ. 

Sidney, please be aware that I am making a solemn record of all I write to you and what you write to me. I named my Document, Winston Australia. So you liven in the First or the Capital City.  Now I will call you Sidney Australia.

You have said most recently in three consecutive messages to me:

·  Today

Hi Miguel.

My name is Sidney. And I also happen to live in Sydney Australia. No Joke
I appreciate your sincerity.
I must tell you however, that your earnest preaching has none of your desired effect on me.
I am so far removed from having any interest or belief in LDS religion that it sounds like babble to me . No offense, that's just how it sounds to me.
It is the same as someone telling me how wonderful an ancient greek god is, or a mystical african all sounds the same to me now.
So, I will ask you again, please do not preach to me or verify anything from scripture. I do not believe the scriptures to be words of god. Therefore what they say does not influence me to believe them. To me they are fabricated works of fiction. To believe that scripture is true because the scripture says it is, is just circular reasoning and has no solid ground to stand on.
I was hoping for a more substantial discussion with you.
I am not asking for you to prove or convince or convert me. This page is not about that. The opposite is true. You have come here to my page which is about refuting the false claims of the LDS church.
You told me you are willing to look at what I say, and take the challenge on. If you just preach and quote scripture then I will have to end it here. Because that to me is not a discussion. That is not a sharing.
So I implore you to keep to our standard of discussion, sharing, exploring together what is the truth.
I have sent you a document about JS and the first vision. Let's explore that.
Please read it and tell me what you think.
I read all of your writing, by the way. But I am skipping over the scripture quotes.
To be clear; I am NOT reading any scripture quote.
It is a waste of time writing them in, and they prove nothing to me nor do they help your case with me.
The article I have sent you is not full of hate or lies btw. It is only full of facts. True writings of JS, his fellows, his wife etc.
If these are poison to you then it is only because you have fully turned your back to the truth.
If you ignore the truth then you will be living in darkness, a self imposed blindness.
If this is the case then our discussion is over as I cannot force a blindman to see what he does not want to see.

And I, Miguel Angel Tinoco now do reply:

Now, please also note, I do not see the articles or links you mentioned that you have sent me other than the one concerning the Book of Mormon that you sent me by this means earlier. You said you sent it or them, but if you roll back the line of conversation we have had thus far is not there.  Other than that, now I understand why I was crying bitterly when I wrote you all that I did write to you earlier.  I did not really want to believe that you were a lost cause and that I would have to accept my loss so quickly.

And again, I am surprised that you keep mentioning the scriptures in your conversations when rarely, as I have been speaking to you I have kept that to a bare minimum.  It is strange to me because it is not my style, or as if something was telling me that you would not read them anyway. So, I am Glad the LORD spare me the extra work for your sure damnation.

The illustrated article I posted after all I wrote before was sent to hundreds of people. I do that often, that is how we are now conversing.  It is my way of fishing and spreading the word and taking away the justification from the ungodly.  And sometimes I catch very bad fish that I have to throw back into the waters.  You are definitely one of them. That article, I sent, was not related to our direct conversation. It was about another riotous fish that fell in my net.   But regardless, I must speak with the scriptures or law and the testimony at hand, because if I do not speak according to this it is because there is no light in me. Ands I do not follow order of men, So, I do as the spirits prompts me for a purpose that is only know to GOD and whose wisdom remain with him. Because the testimony of one man is not valid and that is my way to ad wait and to reinforce my own sayings.   And that assertion is in the scriptures also.  All truth is based upon the law of witness and there must be two or three witnesses as in a court of law to give validity to any claim or even to second the truth to condemn a man and take away all hope, light and remaining truth away from him. And this letter serves that purpose, for the law is good if is used correctly.  SO, that the person is imminently entrusted into the buffettins of Satan until the LORD sees fit or until the last redemption.  I will not stop quoting my witnesses even if it is to a minimum because my words are binding upon your soul, to attest before haven that you have been properly and diligently warned of the fate that awaits you for time and eternity. 

To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

(Old Testament | Isaiah 8:20)

NOW. This is no longer a meaningful conversation between me and you, it never was, at least in your part.  You are not interested in the truth at all but in worthless rhetoric and spreading lies and calumnies against the church of GOD and the saints from your part.  I no longer have respect for you and my esteem for you is very light because I know that the devil is in you. And I do not even see the purpose in our conversation anymore. I am very disillusioned, I was exited for I had lofty expectations of a bloody exchange or battle between me and you. But my hope was in vain and my expectations were unfounded because you were not the worthy adversary I thought you would be.  You do not even have an armor and lack live munitions. All you have is dust, your meal of dead rhetoric.  Because if you are not building faith, then you are destroying it.  You do not even know what the truth is.  It is you in fact, that have turned away your face from the truth, you confessed it by saying that all scriptures is bla,bla,bla to you.  My words are truth and they are your only scripture you knew since you have turned your eyes away to the other or authorized ones.  Did not I prophesy that in the name of the Lord? If I did not, I will.  You are worst than if you have never known the truth in the first place. I have a perfect description of your profile, you are a devil, even an antichrist or anti Mormon anyway you look at it wearing a portrait of Joseph Smith. Even as the scriptures make it plainly manifest saying:   

And thus we can plainly discern, that after a people have been once enlightened by the Spirit of God, and have had great knowledge of things pertaining to righteousness, and then have fallen away into sin and transgression, they become more hardened, and thus their state becomes worse than though they had never known these things.

(Book of Mormon | Alma 24:30)

Sidney, you see how irreverent and incoherent you are. First, you wanted to talk to me about the Book of Mormon. You sent me an article about DNA that does not support what it claims, only so that I would read it and you had, a meager chance to destroy my faith.  You can deny it all you want, but that is the truth. But then, my reply was above you, beyond your capacity or intellect. You did not even reply and yet asked to discuss one thing at the time because you became confused or lost in the scriptures.  Now you want to talk about the first vision of Joseph Smith. And you say you have sent me links with information about people living in the times of the prophet Joseph Smith, which I have never received. Do not bother.  I have no interest in reading anything you send anymore. You had your chance to strike and you forfeited it.  Now you are jumping slipping out your tongue like a frog from topic to topic, seeking to snare and where to entrap me.  You thought that you were dealing with an unprepared LDS Mormon. If you cannot dethrone the cornerstone of our religion, which is the book of Mormon, for it is a rock solid and well set stone, now you turn to one of our pillars, even the first vision of Joseph Smith.  You are in it for a wild ride, even to crash into a pillar of iron that I now have set on fire. I wish you good luck, because that is the only god of chance you believe in.  For every battle of the warrior is with confusing noise and with garments rolled in blood, but this is, still confusing, but this shall be with burning and with burning fuel of devouring fire.

For every battle of the warrior is with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood; but this shall be with burning and fuel of fire.

(Old Testament | Isaiah 9:5)

Also, I told you earlier that what I would read what you send me even if it is poison, because I am used to it, not that I would not read it.  I know because I have been poisoned before.  I take poison for a living before my people. IF it kills me, it will also kill them. This is why the LORD sent me, Michael to fight their battles.  I do not know all things, Sidney Australia, but I know the truth. And I will not trust sources you sent me of dubious reputation. I am not fond of reading a little truth mixed with falsehood.  I’d rather deal with pure filthy falsehood or pure truth. The rest is a waste of time, it is of no worth. If I want to by a Chevrolet, I definitely would trust the report that the competition would give me about it because they are adulterated.  And that is an old tactic of the old devil.  And we the children of GOD that have exercised and strengthen our reasoning do not fall for those old traps.  You told me in the beginning that you would educate me, but it seems that little, obscure and insignificant me has been doing all the teaching here.  You are no worthy match. DON’t you know that we are sent to teach and not be taught because we are taught from on high? Perhaps you missed that lesson when you were with us for twenty years.   You are far, very far away, I may or men not need to have to take my helmet and armor briefly to throw my javelin to you so it can hit your mouth.  I can reach you all the way to Sidney Australia from the comfort of my own home.

You have to try a new trick, old serpent. Old tactics do not work anymore.  You are bound and you have no power over my heart because I walk in righteousness before the LORD. What is it that you want?  What is wrong with you? In the name of Jesus Christ, the son of the Living GOD, our Master, depart from me Satan.

Sidney Australia, the only curtain of smoke here is you. I have detected the devil in you. And I know which words to use to make it ashamed without throwing at you railing accusations.  Let the LORD rebuke the Satan. Don’t you know that this is a brand plucked out of the fire? 

And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

(Old Testament | Zechariah 3:2)

You along with the spirit that is in you, which I suspected earlier, obviously want to discuss, according to you, purported lies about Joseph Smith and so on, but since you do not believe in GOD it is totally irrelevant. Even the very father of lies, the devil, your father, knows that. Sidney Australia, you are his pupil and he desires to make of you a more experienced devil.  True or false, whatever you or I discuss about Joseph Smith, it does not matter. You are in the gall of bitterness, even the bottomless pit and your hunger will not be satisfied because of your great misery. You can only feed on dust. You are nothing but a contentious liar. There is no truth in you, there cannot be. This is why it bounds back to me, What is in it for you if nothing will make you reconsider or even repent until you are entrusted to hell alive for you are a man of sin?  You are an idolater and an adulterer as I pointed it out from the beginning when you begun to seek for proof or signs of the truth we preach.  And you cannot deny it.  I can show you all the truth that there is in the world, about us and you still will not consider it, for it will sound like Greek to you. Truth and light does not attach to you, for your house has been left to you desolate and you are possessed by a lying spirit. And I am here like a light, shining in darkness but darkness comprehends it not.

Now, you are a man of sin, or member of the Synagogue of Satan, even those that lie, and here you are pleading at my feet not to quote scriptures to  you anymore because you do not understand them,  as if I were a God, in fulfillment of the scriptures that say:


Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

(New Testament | Revelation 3:9)

And it came to pass that I said unto them that I knew that I had spoken hard things against the wicked, according to the truth; and the righteous have I justified, and testified that they should be lifted up at the last day; wherefore, the guilty taketh the truth to be hard, for it cutteth them to the very center. And now my brethren, if ye were righteous and were willing to hearken to the truth, and give heed unto it, that ye might walk uprightly before God, then ye would not murmur because of the truth, and say: Thou speakest hard things against us.

(Book of Mormon | 1 Nephi 16:2 - 3)

I am so glad lad you told me your name, and I may know understand from where you are coming from and who you truly are.  It is a nice training exercise to deal time and again with faithless antichrists.  I always get the worst kind to condemn and send to hell but not without first being trodden under foot, for that is your fate that awaits you.  You missed your chance of salvation and to tread over me when I told you that I was willing to become a floor mat or to drink the bitter cup of dregs, if it would help you to be saved, but now that I know that you do not want to be saved,  I withdraw the mat, for you to be trodden under foot and to drink,  for the LORD has said:

Thus saith thy Lord the LORD, and thy God that pleadeth the cause of his people, Behold, I have taken out of thine hand the cup of trembling, even the dregs of the cup of my fury; thou shalt no more drink it again: But I will put it into the hand of them that afflict thee; which have said to thy soul, Bow down, that we may go over: and thou hast laid thy body as the ground, and as the street, to them that went over.

(Old Testament | Isaiah 51:22 - 23)

Now, I have one last bold question for you Sidney Australia that I need to you to answer me, if you will dare to answer for your greater condemnation.  I speak with authority in the name of GOD, Tell me, now,  DO you deny the existence of GOD? 

And Ammon began to speak unto him with boldness, and said unto him:

Believest thou that there is a God?

(Book of Mormon | Alma 18:24)

That is the only things I would like for you to answers since you are lost in the scriptures. And if you do not answer, I say farewell, to the disputer of this world till we meet at the bar of GOD where he will show you that he is, and that all I have spoken is the truth and that which I seal on earth I seal in heaven. And what the LORD say unto one, he says unto all.  And I will see your face to see how you will deny him when he is in your presence. And these things that we have spoken since Tuesday, will be a bright and bold witness against you and all unbelievers that have dissented his holy people, who have departed from the LORD and not inquired of him and refuse to repent and come unto him and partake freely of his salvation.  And I say these things humbly, meekly and boldly, with a single eye for the honor and glory of God, in the sacred name of Jesus Christ, amen.

Yours truly

Miguel Angel Tinoco Rodriguez.


  1. Behind the Mormon Curtain
    Behind the Mormon Curtain said to me:::

    Ok Miguel this conversation is over. Unfortunately you have descended into madness. I was looking forward to an intelligent debate but I see now that we will never have one.



  2. • •
    Miguel Angel Tinoco

    However, it was nevertheless a fact that I had beheld a vision. I have thought since, that I felt much like Paul, when he made his defense before King Agrippa, and related the account of the vision he had when he saw a light, and heard a voice; but still there were but few who believed him; some said he was dishonest, others said he was mad; and he was ridiculed and reviled. But all this did not destroy the reality of his vision. He had seen a vision, he knew he had, and all the persecution under heaven could not make it otherwise; and though they should persecute him unto death, yet he knew, and would know to his latest breath, that he had both seen a light and heard a voice speaking unto him, and all the world could not make him think or believe otherwise. 25 So it was with me. (Pearl of Great Price | JS-History 1:24 - 25)

    Miguel Angel Tinoco

    Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.
    (New Testament | Mark 6:3)

    Miguel Angel Tinoco

    And the Lord spake unto Enoch, and said unto him: Anoint thine eyes with clay, and wash them, and thou shalt see. And he did so. And he beheld the spirits that God had created; and he beheld also things which were not visible to the natural eye; and from thenceforth came the saying abroad in the land: A seer hath the Lord raised up unto his people. And it came to pass that Enoch went forth in the land, among the people, standing upon the hills and the high places, and cried with a loud voice, testifying against their works; and all men were offended because of him. And they came forth to hear him, upon the high places, saying unto the tent–keepers: Tarry ye here and keep the tents, while we go yonder to behold the seer, for he prophesieth, and there is a strange thing in the land; a wild man hath come among us.
    (Pearl of Great Price | Moses 6:35 - 38)

    Miguel Angel Tinoco
    But he said, I am not mad, most noble Festus; but speak forth the words of truth and soberness.
    (New Testament | Acts 26:25)
    But I must fulfil the commandments wherewith God has commanded me; and because I have told you the truth ye are angry with me. And again, because I have spoken the word of God ye have judged me that I am mad.
    (Book of Mormon | Mosiah 13:4)
    As you see with your own eyes and attest with your own words, it is within the territory of my profession to be called mad and what not It is a further testimony of the truthfulness we preach unto your everlasting condemnation.

    Miguel Angel Tinoco
    And when the Jews heard these things they were angry with him; yea, even as with the prophets of old, whom they had cast out, and stoned, and slain; and they also sought his life, that they might take it away. But behold, I, Nephi, will show unto you that the tender mercies of the Lord are over all those whom he hath chosen, because of their faith, to make them mighty even unto the power of deliverance.
    (Book of Mormon | 1 Nephi 1:20)

  3. Behold ye, the people of this great city, and hearken unto my words; yea, hearken unto the words which the Lord saith; for behold, he saith that ye are cursed because of your riches, and also are your riches cursed because ye have set your hearts upon them, and have not hearkened unto the words of him who gave them unto you.

    Ye do not remember the Lord your God in the things with which he hath blessed you, but ye do always remember your riches, not to thank the Lord your God for them; yea, your hearts are not drawn out unto the Lord, but they do swell with great pride, unto boasting, and unto great swelling, envyings, strifes, malice, persecutions, and murders, and all manner of iniquities. For this cause hath the Lord God caused that a curse should come upon the land, and also upon your riches, and this because of your iniquities.

    Yea, wo unto this people, because of this time which has arrived, that ye do cast out the prophets, and do mock them, and cast stones at them, and do slay them, and do all manner of iniquity unto them, even as they did of old time. And now when ye talk, ye say: If our days had been in the days of our fathers of old, we would not have slain the prophets; we would not have stoned them, and cast them out. Behold ye are worse than they; for as the Lord liveth, if a prophet come among you and declareth unto you the word of the Lord, which testifieth of your sins and iniquities, ye are angry with him, and cast him out and seek all manner of ways to destroy him; yea, you will say that he is a false prophet, and that he is a sinner, and of the devil, because he testifieth that your deeds are evil.

    But behold, if a man shall come among you and shall say: Do this, and there is no iniquity; do that and ye shall not suffer; yea, he will say: Walk after the pride of your own hearts; yea, walk after the pride of your eyes, and do whatsoever your heart desireth—and if a man shall come among you and say this, ye will receive him, and say that he is a prophet. Yea, ye will lift him up, and ye will give unto him of your substance; ye will give unto him of your gold, and of your silver, and ye will clothe him with costly apparel; and because he speaketh flattering words unto you, and he saith that all is well, then ye will not find fault with him.

  4. O ye wicked and ye perverse generation; ye hardened and ye stiffnecked people, how long will ye suppose that the Lord will suffer you? Yea, how long will ye suffer yourselves to be led by foolish and blind guides? Yea, how long will ye choose darkness rather than light? Yea, behold, the anger of the Lord is already kindled against you; behold, he hath cursed the land because of your iniquity. And behold, the time cometh that he curseth your riches, that they become slippery, that ye cannot hold them; and in the days of your poverty ye cannot retain them. And in the days of your poverty ye shall cry unto the Lord; and in vain shall ye cry, for your desolation is already come upon you, and your destruction is made sure; and then shall ye weep and howl in that day, saith the Lord of Hosts. And then shall ye lament, and say:

    O that I had repented, and had not killed the prophets, and stoned them, and cast them out. Yea, in that day ye shall say: O that we had remembered the Lord our God in the day that he gave us our riches, and then they would not have become slippery that we should lose them; for behold, our riches are gone from us. Behold, we lay a tool here and on the morrow it is gone; and behold, our swords are taken from us in the day we have sought them for battle. Yea, we have hid up our treasures and they have slipped away from us, because of the curse of the land.

    O that we had repented in the day that the word of the Lord came unto us; for behold the land is cursed, and all things are become slippery, and we cannot hold them. Behold, we are surrounded by demons, yea, we are encircled about by the angels of him who hath sought to destroy our souls. Behold, our iniquities are great. O Lord, canst thou not turn away thine anger from us? And this shall be your language in those days.

    But behold, your days of probation are past; ye have procrastinated the day of your salvation until it is everlastingly too late, and your destruction is made sure; yea, for ye have sought all the days of your lives for that which ye could not obtain; and ye have sought for happiness in doing iniquity, which thing is contrary to the nature of that righteousness which is in our great and Eternal Head.

    O ye people of the land, that ye would hear my words! And I pray that the anger of the Lord be turned away from you, and that ye would repent and be saved.

    (Book of Mormon | Helaman 13:21 - 39)